Elijah Rising
Elijah Rising
How Donated Vehicles Empower Survivors of Human Trafficking - Ep. 76 w/ Ross Peters, 3in1 Mechanical Ministries
How is 3in1 Mechanical Ministries filling the gap of transportation for overcomers of trafficking?
In our work with women in Restorative Care, we have found that once they complete our program and have jobs and housing, we always still have the missing piece of transportation. In order to help our graduates be set up for success, they need a reliable way to get to and from work. Otherwise, they immediately find themselves in a vulnerable situation again.
That’s where 3in1 Mechanical ministries comes in. Ross Peters, their Founder and CEO, shares with us how his lifelong love of cars transformed into a nonprofit that gives away cars to people in need.
Ross also discusses:
- The lack of transportation-related nonprofits not just in Houston, but all of the United States
- The importance of providing reliable vehicles and follow-up care for clients
- The amazing ways God opened doors to create this new nonprofit and some of the success stories they’ve seen
Learn more about Elijah Rising »
Follow us on Instagram »
Donate and Support Our Work »
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Elijah Rising podcast. My name is David and today we have our very special guest, ross Peters, with 3-in-1 Mechanical Ministries, and we're going to talk about who you are, what you do, and I have just a little bio I'm going to read just for our audience so they can get to know you. So Ross is the founder and CEO of 3-in-1 Mechanical Ministries. He's a committed and involved Christian husband and father. Ross is on the engineering team lead, or are the engineering team lead for Caltech's Oil Tools, an oil and gas service company, and, aside from regular duties of life and ministry, you can be found woodworking, restoring his home or performing myriad of other building projects, from chicken coops to cars. Oh, yeah, yeah I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've, uh, we've got 15 chickens right now, and so it's uh oh my gosh oh, dude, it's a riot chicken. I heard about. Toddlers are a really, really good combination. It's like if you want just endless entertainment, and uh, we'll, we'll see my, uh, I'll see my son. He'll go out in the chicken coop and just pick up the chickens, walk around with them, set them down yeah, you'll have to give us a picture of your chicken so we can put that in the cover photo.
Speaker 1:Yeah but anyways, uh, we're not here to talk about chickens. Oh, you have a. You have a really incredible ministry, and let me tell you guys how much of a blessing this is, because, elijah rising, we've been doing, you know, safe homes since 2015, 2016. And we just saw the need of, like man, people need help out of trafficking. Let's get them in a safe home. You know a lot of people that are trafficked are homeless as well, and so housing is a big thing. So, you know, we're like getting a safe home. You know let's, let's help you get your life back on your feet. And we'd always get to the final step of like, all right, you're ready.
Speaker 1:You know, you got got a job, we got a place to live, but the biggest barrier for us every single time was the car yeah it was like you don't have a car, so you know there's the bus and and that works sometimes and they're uber but that's like crazy expensive, I don't know if you've taken a five thousand dollar car like yeah, I took an uber the other day and I think it was like 40 bucks or something silly, ridiculous.
Speaker 1:So that's not sustainable means of transportation at all yeah, and so it was always this like obstacle and we never really knew how to. I mean, we would ask for cars, but you know, not many people wanted to donate, or we had people that would donate cars and that process was just like it gave us a headache trying to figure out how to do that, and so you've started a ministry. That that's the focus, and so maybe tell us a little bit more about what drew your attention to the human trafficking issue?
Speaker 2:Sure, so, yeah, thank you for that intro. Um, so I was, I actually met one of, uh, one of y'all's workers, uh, jessica gobble, at an andrew peterson concert and, um, I had no clue who y'all were, um, and I, I guess, to be frank, I didn't start, we didn't start three in one, uh, specifically with the intent to focus on human trafficking.
Speaker 2:I've always been very pro not putting God in the box with who we're going to serve, but he's very, very clearly led us to y'all and to the need that is within human trafficking, especially being in Houston, need that is within human trafficking, especially being in Houston. You know, unfortunately we have quite the industry for traffic, for trafficking, and so there's a big need there, and so we met. I met Jessica. She expressed the exact same thing that you just expressed to me, or just expressed.
Speaker 1:Yeahessica um, she was just on our podcast, you know a couple weeks ago so if you're, if you're listening, you're wondering who jessica is. It is the jessica that was on our podcast, our recovery specialist.
Speaker 2:Perfect, yes, same same one yeah and um, so she kind of expressed the same need and uh, and so it was like, okay, what would this look like? How would we actually do that? And this was, I guess, a little over a year ago now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it would have been December of 22 is when that concert was, and you know this was for us it was a huge answer to prayer because we were very much in the grinding it out, starting the nonprofit stage, getting getting paperwork put together, figuring out how all of this was actually going to function. What was really really heavy on my heart at that time, and what was frankly pretty discouraging, um, was the client care side of things. It's like how I'm trying to figure out how to transfer vehicles and figure out what the paperwork looks like. How do I get them repaired to ensure sufficient reliability? Um, how am I going to care for someone? At this point, I don't even know what it looks like to do a day-to-day operation, and so it was pretty discouraging. And then meeting Jessica and going through that and praying through that, it was really an opportunity for us to hand off a big portion of that. It's like, well, client care is what y'all do. Yeah, y'all are really good at that. And so it was like, okay, well, this is a really really good starting off point for us to ensure you know working with y'all. It ensures that we know the clients are taken care of, because we know who y'all are and we know now, after building a relationship, what y'all's practices are, your heart for your clients that y'all are serving.
Speaker 2:And then the follow-up. And that was a big thing for us as well, because there's a lot of I wouldn't say a lot. There's not a lot of automotive nonprofit space where people are giving away cars. There's not a ton. I was talking with Blake Jennings, the founder of OnRamp Texas, and he's been our mentor. They've been absolutely fantastic with just helping us figure out all of it at every single stage. And he had mentioned that there was a study there in College Station and they had a study done by one of the A&M schools that I don't recall, and of all of the nonprofits centered around automotive things, and there was less than 20 in the country and only two of them had any sort of follow-up after giving the vehicle.
Speaker 1:Wow In the country, less than 20? In America.
Speaker 2:And so this was a I'm not sure. This would have been maybe 2019 or maybe 21, some somewhere in that range, I mean in the last five years yeah so recent, um no, after the fact follow-up and it's just like that's like you're almost you're missing the mark. Yeah, you know, it's like you're missing the mark.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know it's like because you can give the vehicle away and that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, here's a car, but to have a plan in place, like worst case scenario is we give a car away and then five years later they come back asking for another car. Yeah, we didn't do our job, we just enabled you to stay in the same position and maintain yeah and so and so, coming on, um, and partnering with y'all, y'all have that follow-up already in place. Yeah, when, when your residents graduate, there's a follow-up yeah, case management exactly so it's like, man, this is, this is a perfect scenario for us.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, that's kind of how praying through all of that. And then with the introduction to y'all, it was very, very clear. God was like here you go, this is the partnership y'all are going to start with, get things figured out and, you know, stay focused on Elijah Rising right now. And so hopefully we grow and expand and we can incorporate other ministries and other opportunities, but right now, yeah, we're pretty focused on y'all and it's been awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love that. That's your heart of wanting to not just give something away. I think of the. The oprah me was like you get a car, you get a car, you get a car, you know it's like. You know it's great, you're meeting a need, but there's so much more that someone needs just kind of guidance and walking along with and, and we know that. That's why we, you know, we often think to ourselves and tell people that our program is really just step one, like you think you're. You're coming in and you know you're going to leave and everything is just going to be roses and easy and you know you're totally 100 healed.
Speaker 2:There's no, there's never going to be, you know, and and that's just like it's all better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's the picture that a lot of especially like you know, I'm a marketer, but a lot of nonprofit marketers you paint this picture of like come to our program and then everything else is great, and that's not the case. You really got to walk alongside people for and it's about relationship and that's what I really appreciate about you, and even in who we partner with. That's something we value. You know, yeah, are you gonna care for our? You know the residents that we're caring for in?
Speaker 1:the same manner. So I just think that's amazing. It's it's just a great example of the body of christ coming together and meeting different needs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know, and you know we're all equipped differently. Yeah, you know, and this is automotive benevolence is a weird thing, you know. That's kind of something that's always been on my heart, you know, and that's kind of how all of this started was in high school. I was involved in the auto tech programs and all of that, and God just kind of always had on my heart like, hey, you're going to do something benevolent with cars.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:What, okay, cool, that sounds great. What does that mean? And so he, you know, he placed that little nugget on my heart. And then, you know, at that point I thought I was going to. I went to tech school and learned some other skills and I was like, okay, I'm going to build hot rods for the rest of my life. And here I am in oil and gas my life. And here I am in oil and gas. And uh, but uh.
Speaker 2:So my thought at the time was it was going to be a like I would own a mechanic shop and then we would have some sort of service on the side, um, to help folks who can't, uh, who couldn't afford it. Uh, something very, very similar. Um, christian brothers has their National Day of Service. Basically, that was what was in my head as a kid, and then, so it. So then, as it just continued on, god just kept revealing a little bit more.
Speaker 2:And then there was a my wife and I moved into the house that were in in December of 19, and there was a moment, summer of 2020. It was like I had, I had all these different puzzle pieces, and then the house we moved into, we have a little bit more space, and so that was another big final piece. And I was like I remember sitting in the pool with my wife and just asking like hey, I'm really curious to see what God's going to do with this. Like I clearly have something on my heart Don't know what it is, but there's something there that he's drawing me to. I know that without a shadow of a doubt. We now have the space and I've got abilities, so we have it all. I mean, I think, for whatever my eyes can see. And she looked at me and she was just like well, why don't you just start it? Okay, start what.
Speaker 2:And so throughout 2020, and this is where it got pretty regimented in year blocks. So 2020 was like okay, what are we going to do? This sounds cool, but what are we going to do? Because I don't own a shop, I'm not in the car business at all, but I have a really bad habit of buying and selling cars, and that's not great financially or on a marriage. So it's like okay, well, let's do it for Jesus, then she can't say anything.
Speaker 2:But so 2020 was the year of like okay, what is this gonna be? And then we got a clear vision Okay, you're gonna give cars away, that's what you're gonna do. There's a huge transportation need, so do your part to solve it. And then 21 was the year of like okay, well, you have the vision. What would that actually look like? More logistically speaking, how would this actually go? So we got that kind of fleshed out in 21. And then in 22, it was all right, gear up, get all of your legal things, all of your bank, get all of your systems set up so that you're ready to operate.
Speaker 2:23, last year was the year of starting to operate. We did two clients with y'all, gave away two vehicles, learned a ton on what to do there. And then here we are this year. It's kind of a foundational stage, if you will. It's like kind of the. The phrase I would use is like we're making our systems now work for us. We kind of have an idea of how we want to do work and, um, we now need to make sure our systems are helping that, as opposed to we're working so that we fit into our systems.
Speaker 2:It's like that's not efficient, that's not scalable, and so we need to take we're taking our systems now this year and actually making them work for us, and so all that to say you mentioned you know everyone doing their part in the body and it's just like there are. You don't know what God has planned for you.
Speaker 1:We don't.
Speaker 2:We're finite. Trying to understand the infinite, yeah, never going to work. What we do know is we know that the desires that we have in our heart have been placed there by God, and so he's going to cultivate them. We've been given talents and abilities that he has given us, and it's up to us to cultivate and to use those for his kingdom. And then all we've got to do is show up and say what do I need to do with these things now? Because here we are, I've got this.
Speaker 2:I know how to work on cars, I love buying and selling cars, and now I have space. Well, currently I have six additional vehicles at my house and it's like it doesn't really impact our day-to-day life. Yeah, so it's like okay, god, I see where the space was coming in, I see where that portion is coming in and I put a fence up so my wife doesn't have to look at it. But it's just really really interesting to me, one of the things that really really puts me in awe of God, and this is probably just because I'm a mechanical engineer. I always look at the systems, and so when I see the things that God is doing on a system level, it's absolutely fascinating to me.
Speaker 2:So an example God is a God of fractals, and if you're not familiar with what a fractal is, it's effectively, it's an infinitely continuing pattern that looks the same at pretty much all scales, and so easiest example of that is you're in an airplane and you're flying. You look down, you look at the trees. What do the trees look like? They look like broccoli, and then the broccoli, you know. You go down even further. What does it look like? Well, it looks like the bronchi in your lungs, and so it's the same image.
Speaker 2:And you see it all through the Old Testament too, which is the way that the biblical writers structured all of it. It's very fractaled, and so it's the same thing. It's like we have this image and we're called the body of Christ, and so that's all of us as people. So, okay, we'll zoom that into the body. If we're taking this idea and this image of fractals, zoom it into the body.
Speaker 2:Oh, the body is a fascinating feat of design that requires a whole bunch of different, very independent, very specific systems doing their job to the best of their ability in order for the entire body to function. It's like, okay, well, now zoom that down to the cell. It's the exact same situation and so, at all of these stages, having that mindset, it's like, okay, well, I am an integral part of the body of Christ, and so for people to succeed in a way that is honoring to God, it's like I have to look at how God has equipped me. I don't have to understand where I'm going, but I know that I have a job to do, that he has put me on a task to do, and in order for everybody around me to succeed, I have to do that job specifically as best as I can.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then that will bring everyone else up, so I don't know what that looks like. You know any? I don't think I'm doing anything particularly special, I'm just. I see what God has has set me up to do and I'm just trying to do it to the best of our abilities.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, and it's amazing because you know let's just use the car, for example, like it's a car, but really what it gives someone is opportunity. Yeah, you know, second chance and you know, and God uses stuff like that, like stuff that we take for granted. You know, I get in my car every day, take my daughter to school, come to the office. Don't even think about this blessing that I have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's one of the most difficult things is vehicles. One of the most difficult things to communicate is because, just like you said, when you get in your car and you start it every single day, you don't even think about it. It's the same thing. You walk in your house, you turn the lights on, you don't even think about it. It's the same thing. You walk in your house, you turn the lights on, you don't even think about it, and so. But we're so spread out. It's like you know. I like to think about like when was the last time you had to put your car in the shop, you know, and you're out of a car for a few days? Yeah, it's like that is miserably inconvenient, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's.
Speaker 2:Imagine having two kids and trying to get them to their daycare and then you to your job, without a car.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and maybe an employer that isn't going to be lenient with you, exactly.
Speaker 2:And so you know, and that kind of you know, I guess leads in the type of vehicles that we're trying to give away, like our target, our biggest goal, goal with vehicles, because vehicles are great, yeah, they are, I love them. I'm a car guy, I love everything about cars. Um, they break, yeah, period. They're very, very complicated they're. They're there's chemical systems, there's complicated there, there's chemical systems, there's mechanical systems, there's electromechanical systems, um, full-on electrical, like they are super complicated pieces of machinery that we're giving away, that we don't think about because they've been fantastically engineered just so that they have longevity and and we've, you know, they've done as much engineering controls as they can they still require maintenance and so, like we want to give a blessing, not a burden, yeah, you know. So our target is five years, if we can ensure to the best of our ability, like I can buy you a new car and it's going to fail, it just is what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at some point it's a complicated piece of machinery.
Speaker 2:But if we can target five years, so that statistically gives someone enough time once they're on a sound financial path, they're moving the right direction in life, which again is what we strive to do with all of our clients. How can we help you move forward and raise you up? Then statistically, that's how long it takes them to be in the position to purchase their vehicle, their own vehicle. So that's our target there, and so we want to do our best to ensure that level of sufficient reliability.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then, ultimately, the cars are going to fail. And so our mission at 3-in-1 is to spread the gospel through the provision of reliable transportation. Wow, and so we all focus on the cars, but our mission is to spread the gospel. That's amazing, because we'll give you a car that's going to fail, but who's not going to fail is Jesus. Yeah, you know, if we can introduce you to someone who is reliably sound all the time, who promises he's going to meet your needs like that's it when your car breaks down, he knows that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he knows when that car is going to fail down. He knows that. Yeah, he knows when that car is going to fail. Um, and so, yeah, that's we. We want to be a blessing, not a burden. And it seems kind of backwards to imagine giving a car away can be a burden to someone. But if you, if you give someone a vehicle that hasn't been the vehicle hasn't been vetted and you don't know, so that person, now they were in a situation they were able to get a job and now, two months later, that vehicle is broken down and it's in the shop and oh, by the way, that's $2,000 worth of repairs. Have you really left them in a better situation?
Speaker 2:yeah like no, yeah, that's, that's difficult for anybody to handle, you know, absorbing that. So that's, um, yeah, we, we want to.
Speaker 1:We want to be in the business of helping people yeah, moving people forward yeah, so tell us what it was like, you know, giving that that first car away.
Speaker 2:Oh man, it was crazy. It was a culmination of a lot of effort. I remember being frazzled and excited and it just blinked and was gone. But but yeah, so the, the first, the first vehicle, that, that one was really cool because I found it again. We were very much in proof of concept phase. So didn't have a network of you know, like this was me just running around trying to figure out, how do I?
Speaker 1:buy a car and give it away when you're starting. That's how it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and so I found it was a 2006 Mazda 3. Had 125,000 miles on it. That's how it is. Yeah, absolutely, and so I found it was a. It was a 2006 mazda 3, had 125 000 miles on it, and I found it on uh facebook marketplace and thankfully it was like less than five miles from my house wow, okay, cool awesome, I'm gonna go look at this thing.
Speaker 2:And um, told the guy a dude was asking like 5500 and uh, went test drove it seemed always well, and so I was talking to him hey, I think this is gonna be a fit. Yeah, sure, let's, let's go for it. Told him on the test drive we were talking about you know what we were gonna do, what we were doing with the vehicle. I was purchasing it and and then we got out of the car and he was like you know, I really like what you're trying to do, so I'll give it to you for $4,500. Wow, okay, done, I'll be back tomorrow with a check, how about that? And so we got it.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, I did as many of the repairs as I could, just on the floor of my garage, yeah, and got it. You know, to a to a point that it was good. And then, um, and then, yeah, we, we delivered that vehicle to our first client. And, um, it was really really surreal. I remember getting in the car, um, I mean, I drove the car to, to where we were delivering it, and then my wife came and we were riding home with her and I remember getting in the car and just being like we did the thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like we've done a lot of work and there's been a lot of brain power and a lot of effort put into this, and like we finally actually did a thing yeah you know, this isn't. This has now become something tangible. This is no longer just I'm generating documents in our online system. Yeah, to explain how we will do work. We're actually now doing the work and, um, it was really cool. You know, I just I feel really, really blessed because, like I don't deserve to get to do this, there's no way.
Speaker 2:Like I know my heart, I don't deserve to get to do what I'm doing. Yeah, I'm super, super blessed and thankful that God has asked me to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's a huge blessing and yeah, I mean it's, I'm it's so cool because you know on on our end, like this is something we're praying for like constantly and every time we take someone in. You know I'm not in the program side of things, but I know there comes a point when it's like, okay, they're going to get to this final phase and it's like I know you know where's the car going to come from or how are they going to. You know, sometimes the bus works and that's great. Sometimes you know they're able to make the situation work, but a lot of the times you know you just need a vehicle. And so I remember you know us always praying Lord, please send a vehicle, provide a vehicle for this person. And so when I first heard about what you're doing, I was like, oh my God, this is a miracle.
Speaker 2:This is answered prayer. Yeah, it's like oh well, we're kind of a thing, we're trying to be a thing, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I mean, I think it's brilliant. I think you know, of course, you said you know there's not a lot of people doing this, so there is like a pioneering that needs to be done. There is, you know, learning, but I think, you know, once the idea gets out there and people know, you know, I can see this becoming, um, you know, a a huge help to not just a trafficking space but, you know, victims of domestic violence, single moms. You know, like you know, I grew up in a a single mom household and it was like, like you're saying, when the car broke down, it caused, yeah, all sorts of, uh, crazy situations for us. So, um, if someone's listening to this and they're like I want to get involved, or like you know, I have a car that maybe they could use, kind of, we'll take it. What's the process for someone like who's listening that either wants to learn more, get involved or maybe donate a car?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, so we do have our website 3in1mechanicalministriescom. That's the number three I-N and the number one Mechanical Ministries and there's more information on our website. There's also a link to a donation form, a financial donation form and then a vehicle donation form and the vehicles that we have right now they are donated. We actually just did another vehicle. We had a donor come and they kind of served as the donor and nominee type thing. So it was our first vehicle, not with y'all. So it was our first vehicle not with y'all and kind of came out of nowhere and it was. You know, that process is very, very simple. So that was a purchased vehicle because they came with funding.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, perfect Can they all.
Speaker 2:But so outside of that one, all of the other vehicles are donated yeah, and so there's, you know, more work and more effort generally, because your donated vehicles are generally a lower level vehicle and so they require more work or they're higher miles, or they're older or anything like that. But so, on the form, you know, you'll be able to input all of the give me the VIN, give me the year, mileage, why are you donating it? What's give? Give us as much of an idea of the mechanical condition, the physical condition of the vehicle. What's the title status? Do you want a 1090C, a 1090AC, so you can, you know, have. Do you want a 1090C, a 1090AC, so you can have a tax write-off and then that'll happen.
Speaker 2:Reach out, then I'll reach out to them and try and get some pictures, especially if the vehicle's far, far away, it's like, okay, if I can get pictures of it, videos of it running, pictures of the vehicle really give us an understanding of what we're getting into. Yeah, um, that's, that'll be very beneficial. And then, and then from there, if it's, if it's a fit, which kind of right now we're in the place where everything's a fit, because even if, um, like, we have a vehicle right now that, uh, we're not going to do any repairs on.
Speaker 2:It's financially it doesn't make sense. So we'll either just punt it, put it on Marketplace and see if we can bring in $1,000 or $1,500 in the ministry, or try and find. There's a few other groups that we've been working with that are training. One specifically is a nonprofit called Petra Cares, and we've been trying to figure out how we can work together so we've been chatting back and forth, but they train students who have just aged out of foster care to be mechanics.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And so I've kind of thought I was like okay, well, maybe I can give them like this vehicle.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they can use it for that, rebuild it and then maybe give it to one of their students or something. I don't know yeah yeah, but yeah, either way, all of the vehicles come in and they benefit the nonprofit. You know they benefit us because, whether it's the nonprofit, you know they.
Speaker 2:they benefit us because whether it's we're actually going to turn it around and give it away to a client, which that's what everyone wants right, you know everyone's like man, I have this car and I want it to bless somebody, and so I guess my job in that is saying like, hey, this is going to bless somebody, even if it means we're selling it to pull the value out of it so that we can repair this other vehicle.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, and that's important, you know because, in trying to help people, sometimes you can hurt them if you don't. You know like we talked about it, you know so yeah, yeah, we're not going to be the burden.
Speaker 2:We're going to do everything we can. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm a human. I know I'm going to. You know I have the potential to just have this thing burn. Like that is what it is. That's me. I'm broken. I don't. I'm just trying to follow what God's putting in front of me. Yeah, and ultimately, everything. Our systems are generated by people.
Speaker 2:Our technicians are all people and so we're going to break something, we're going to screw up. Yeah is what it is, that's totally fine. How do we handle it and how do we set ourselves up so we can minimize that?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, less bad, yeah well, I think it's amazing what you're doing. Obviously, you know, we can see your passion, we can see your commitment to excellence, and so it's been cool to just kind of see it launch and take off. And so now, you know, now you're going and climbing and, man, this is exciting. And so, guys, if you're listening or watching, you know, go find three-in-one mechanical ministries on their website, follow them on Instagram like they're new Facebook as well.
Speaker 1:They're pretty new. Y' they're pretty new. Y'all guys are pretty new, very much so, and so if you guys could help us spread the word, share about them with your friends you know, you just never know, you know who you're going to connect with like you were at a concert and you met one of our uh employees or one of our staff and you know, it kind of led you on a path and, and so you never know, just share it and see what happens. And if you found this show encouraging at all, I would love for you guys to just leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Those reviews help us reach more people. And, ross, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me. This has been awesome.
Speaker 1:And if you want to learn more, links will be in the show notes, and we hope you have a great day.